1000 Better Stories
A Scottish Communities Climate Action Network Podcast sharing stories of community led climate action in Scotland to help us all imagine a better future.
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Episodes
Monday Jan 08, 2024
Monday Jan 08, 2024
In this crossover episode, Katie Revell, a podcast producer and a member of SCCAN's Story Circle and the Storytellers Collective, shares a bonus episode from her Testing Ground podcast series.
It features an interview with Mairi Macleod, a Glasgow-based writer who works in both Gaelic and English, and her short story, Seasickness, or Cur na mara. Mairi’s story updates the traditional Scottish folktale, The Selkie Wife, for an age of climate crisis.
Testing Grounds series focuses on the collaborative response to the climate crisis by the Nordic Alliance of Artists Residencies on Climate Action (NAARCA). Mairi’s work was commissioned by NAARCA.
Credits
Testing Grounds is produced and edited by Katie Revell and includes original music by Loris S. Sarid and artwork by Jagoda Sadowska. The short story was commissioned by NAARCA from Gaelic writer Mairi Macleod.
Transcript
See our website:
https://sccan.scot/blog/seasickness-cur-na-mara-a-story-by-mairi-macleod-crossover/(opens in a new tab)
Resources
Testing Grounds podcast: https://testinggrounds.buzzsprout.com/2113331
NAARCA: https://naarca.art/
NAARCA blog about Mairi and her commission: https://naarca.art/2023/08/14/testing-grounds-bonus-episode-seasickness-cur-na-mara-a-short-story-by-mairi-macleod-now-available/
Monday Dec 18, 2023
Monday Dec 18, 2023
Our SCCAN intern, Madeleine Scobie, interviews three more people from Arran Eco Savvy. During her visit to Arran, she talked to Jess Wallace, Sustainable Food Coordinator and Nikki Harris, Eco Savvy shop manager. She also spoke with Stuart Wallace, ebike mechanic, online in October.
Transcript
See our website: https://sccan.scot/blog/everyday-changemakers-jess-nikki-stuart-arran-ecosavvy/(opens in a new tab)
Credits
Interview, recording and sound production: Madeleine Scobie.
Resources
Arran Eco Savvy website: https://arranecosavvy.org.uk/
Zero Waste Cafe: https://arranecosavvy.org.uk/about-arran-eco-savvy/current-projects/zero-waste-cafe/
Zero Waste Cafe video: https://vimeo.com/796376962/ce499f02e2
Sustainable Food Places: https://www.sustainablefoodplaces.org/
Arran Eco Savvy Community Shop: https://arranecosavvy.org.uk/community-shop/
Community Shop video: https://vimeo.com/826523465/3f3863284a?share=copy
Circular Economy: https://www.zerowastescotland.org.uk/topics/circular-economy
An illustrated interview with Wally: https://arranecosavvy.org.uk/news-events/eco-savvy-news-events/arran-eco-savvy-bike-mechanic-wally-wallace/
Active Travel Hub: https://arranecosavvy.org.uk/about-arran-eco-savvy/current-projects/active-travel-hub/
Active Travel Hub video: https://vimeo.com/799647519/663c6e3da1
20 Minute Neighbourhoods project: https://www.ourplace.scot/about-place/themes/20-minute-neighbourhoods-home/20-minute-neighbourhoods
Tuesday Dec 12, 2023
Tuesday Dec 12, 2023
Our Story Weaver, Kaska Hempel, talks to Hollis, a volunteer involved in Dundee’s Wee Forest project.
The story is the final in a 5-part series of weekly interviews with members of Dundee Community Garden Network (Grow Dundee) recorded this June, and an audio tour exploring the meaning and impact of community gardening.
You can find a draft of the audio tour here:
https://izi.travel/en/ff0a-dundee-community-garden-network-draft/en
WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!
We are looking for micro-story contributions about your community’s climate and social justice achievements this year so that we can include them in the next few episodes. If you or your community organisation had some proud moments, if you managed to create real glimpses of what’s truly possible or if you simply kept going against all odds please share it with our audience. You can record your message at this link (up to 90 sec): https://www.speakpipe.com/1000BetterStories.
Transcript
See our website: https://sccan.scot/blog/everyday-changemakers-hollis-dundee-wee-forests/
Credits
Interview, recording and sound production: Kaska Hempel
Resources
Wee forest project info on Nature Scot website - including a few wee videos from primary schools involved in creating them. https://www.nature.scot/climate-change/nature-based-solutions/wee-forests-part-tinyforest-global-family
Wee Forests in Dundee (University of Dundee press release) https://www.dundee.ac.uk/stories/wee-forests-make-big-impact-dundee-community
Earthwatch Europe - tiny forest project https://earthwatch.org.uk/program/tiny-forest/
Tiny Forest research and citizen science https://tinyforest.earthwatch.org.uk/tiny-forest-research
The 2023 state of the climate report: Entering uncharted territory https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/biad080/7319571?login=false
Sugi project - Pocket Forest has a podcast on community https://www.sugiproject.com/podcast
Wee forest zine jam https://allevents.in/mobile/amp-event.php?event_id=10000528390950557
Dundee Climate/Changemakers Hub: https://creativedundee.com/2023/09/dundee-changemakers-hub/
Dundee Community Gardens Network map https://growdundee.blog/75-2/
Social Action Inquiry Scotland documentary about Dundee Community Gardens Network (Fruit Bowls, Ninewells and Maxwell) https://youtu.be/LFrZPtmgssA?si=kjQcQCG88fQfXd5d
Monday Dec 04, 2023
Monday Dec 04, 2023
Our Story Weaver, Kaska Hempel, talks to Harold, one of the core volunteers running Fruit Bowls Community Garden.
The story is the fourth in a 5-part series of weekly interviews with members of Dundee Community Garden Network (Grow Dundee) recorded this June, and an audio tour exploring the meaning and impact of community gardening.
You can find a draft of the audio tour here:
https://izi.travel/en/ff0a-dundee-community-garden-network-draft/en
Tune in next week for the final story from the Fruibowls Community Garden.
WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!
We are looking for micro-story contributions about your community’s climate and social justice achievements this year so that we can include them in the next few episodes. If you or your community organisation had some proud moments, if you managed to create real glimpses of what’s truly possible or if you simply kept going against all odds please share it with our audience. You can record your message at this link (up to 90 sec): https://www.speakpipe.com/1000BetterStories.
Transcript
See our website: https://sccan.scot/blog/everyday-changemakers-harold-fruit-bowls-community-garden/
Credits
Interview, recording and sound production: Kaska Hempel
Resources
Fruit Bowls Community Garden Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/fruitbowlsdundee/
Fruibowls Garden in a blog by Repollinate: https://www.repollinate.org.uk/2022/08/10/beds-for-bees-fruit-bowls-community-garden/
Froglife https://www.froglife.org/
Repollinate https://www.repollinate.org.uk/
Bonnie Dundee IYN https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/service-area/neighbourhood-services/environment/beautiful-scotland/bonnie-dundee
Dundee Community Garden Network/Grow Dundee https://growdundee.blog/
Scrapantics’ loose parts play https://www.scrapantics.co.uk/play
Fair Growing Green Video https://vimeo.com/778473010
Monday Nov 27, 2023
Monday Nov 27, 2023
Our Story Weaver, Kaska Hempel, talks to Gisela de la Espada, a garden coordinator for Yusuf Youth Intitiative’s Victoria Community Gardens, forstering diversity among their volunteers and nature.
The story is the third in a 5-part series of weekly interviews with members of Dundee Community Garden Network (Grow Dundee) recorded this June, and an audio tour exploring the meaning and impact of community gardening.
You can find a draft of the audio tour here: https://izi.travel/en/ff0a-dundee-community-garden-network-draft/en
Tune in next week for a story from the Fruibowls Community Garden.
Transcript
See our website: https://sccan.scot/blog/everyday-changemakers-gisela-victoria-community-gardens/
Credits
Interview, recording and sound production: Kaska Hempel
Resources
Victoria Community Gardens (Yusuf Youth Initiative) on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaGardensYYI
The Big Lunch (Eden Communities) https://www.edenprojectcommunities.com/the-big-lunch
Eden Project Dundee https://www.edenproject.com/new-edens/eden-project-dundee-uk
Trellis Scotland (gardening for wellbeing) https://www.trellisscotland.org.uk/
Keep Scotland Beautiful https://www.keepscotlandbeautiful.org/
SRUC https://www.sruc.ac.uk/
The MAXwell Centre, Dundee https://maxdundee.org.uk/
Green Health Prescription Scotland https://www.greenhealth.scot/
Dundee Community Garden Network (Grow Dundee) https://growdundee.blog/
Monday Nov 20, 2023
Monday Nov 20, 2023
Our Story Weaver, Kaska Hempel, talks to Rowan, who works for Uppertunity with their Growing Spaces Group. Uppertunity supports individuals with learning disabilities, autism and mental health barriers.
The story is the second in a 5-part series of weekly interviews with members of Dundee Community Garden Network (Grow Dundee) recorded this June, and an audio tour exploring the meaning and impact of community gardening.
You can find a draft of the audio tour here:
https://izi.travel/en/ff0a-dundee-community-garden-network-draft/en
Tune in next week for a story from the Victoria Community Garden.
Credits
Interview, recording and sound production: Kaska Hempel
Transcript
SCCAN website https://sccan.scot/blog/everyday-changemakers-rowan-uppertunities-growing-spaces/
Resources
Uppertunity Growing Spaces Group https://uppertunity.org.uk/growing-places
Uppertunity website (including ReBoutique and Serendipities project) https://uppertunity.org.uk/
Uppertunity on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Uppertunity
The Circle https://thecirclecic.org.uk/
History of the Dudhope Castle, including reasons for its nickname “People’s Castle” (Video) https://thecirclecic.org.uk/the-history-of-dudhope-castle-film/
Barnhill Rock Garden http://www.barnhillrockgarden.org.uk/
Monday Nov 13, 2023
Monday Nov 13, 2023
Our Story Weaver, Kaska Hempel, talks to Catherine Lawson, one of the volunteers behind Bonnie Dundee (In Your Neighbourhood) group.
Credits
Interview, recording and sound production: Kaska Hempel
Transcript
See SCCAN website https://sccan.scot/blog/everyday-changemakers-catherine-lawson-bonnie-dundee-iyn/
Resources
Audio tour of Dundee Community Garden Network (DRAFT): https://izi.travel/en/browse/ff0a9bcf-009d-4c1d-baaf-19e3e1d7e056/en
Bonnie Dundee Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BonnieDundeeBloom/
Bonnie Dundee Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bonniedundeebloom/
Bonnie Dundee website https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/service-area/neighbourhood-services/environment/beautiful-scotland/bonnie-dundee
Bonnie Dundee IYN (It’s Your Neighbourhood) write up on Keep Scotland Beautiful
https://www.keepscotlandbeautiful.org/community-and-place/its-your-neighbourhood/find-out-more-and-take-part-in-its-your-neighbourhood/2023-entrants/bonnie-dundee-iyn/
A map of groups and places participating in Beautiful Scotland and It’s Your Neighbourhood (IYN) https://www.keepscotlandbeautiful.org/community-and-place/its-your-neighbourhood/beautiful-scotland-and-its-your-neighbourhood-map/
The Art-Science Orchard at the back of the Science Centre/Dundee Contemporary Arts Centre https://dundeeurbanorchard.net/art-science-orchard/
Dundee Urban Orchard (DUO) https://dundeeurbanorchard.net/about/
Pocket Gardens at Slessor Gardens, Dundee (Bonnie Dundee takes care of ‘Reflections of the Tay’) https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/service-area/city-development/slessor-gardens
Urban rewilding projects at Dundee Botanics https://www.dundee.ac.uk/projects/rewilding-dundee
Dundee Botanics - Urban Arboretum https://www.dundee.ac.uk/corporate-information/botanic-garden-and-grounds-strategy
Interview with Kevin Frediani about the Botanic Garden’s role in future-proofing Dundee’s green spaces https://youtu.be/hXGuLwSFtg0?si=K1Df5oU0DjA5a-QQ
Monday Nov 06, 2023
Monday Nov 06, 2023
Kathi Kamleitner reports on her summer visit to the Wild Seas Weekend in Argyll and the Seawilding project which is fast becoming a template for community-led marine regeneration efforts around Scotland’s coastline.
This story was funded through our mini-grant programme. Get in touch on stories@sccan.scot if you are considering applying for one.
Kathi’s publishing a sister Seawilding story on her own podcast Wild for Scotland this week - see the link in the Resource section to listen.
Credits
Interview and recording: Kathi Kamleitner
Co-production, editing and sound design: Fran Turauskis
Resources
Seawilding website: https://www.seawilding.org/
"Long Time Coming" episode on Kathi's Wild for Scotland podcast https://www.wildforscotland.com/seagrass-restoration-loch-craignish/
Coastal Communities Network website: https://www.communitiesforseas.scot/
Argyll Hope Spot website: https://argyllhopespot.scot/
CROMACH website: https://www.cromach.org/
What's a Marine Protected Area: https://www.nature.scot/professional-advice/protected-areas-and-species/protected-areas/marine-protected-areas/scotlands-marine-protected-area-network
Seawilding on the Rewild Podcast: https://pod.link/1668050136/episode/c4660a0178b228b228ffb1be3263127f
Film about Seawilding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tid73gH2i
Transcript
The first time I snorkelled through a seagrass meadow was in a quiet corner of a sea loch near the village of Tayvallich. I was one of eleven people participating in the snorkelling artist residency hosted by the Argyll Hope Spot.
The seagrass meadow I saw that day was a bustling hub of biodiversity. Deep-black brittle stars wrapped their lanky arms around blades of seagrass or long strings of sea spaghetti.
Scallops shells littered the seafloor. Many were empty and long abandoned by the creatures that built them, but I also spotted living scallops as they sifted water through the narrow opening between their shells. On their outside, pink serpulid worms peeked out of their white tubes, spreading their fan-shaped crowns towards me. But as I moved closer and they noticed my presence. The worms closed the lids at the end of their tubes and the scallops sealed their shells shut. And in an instant, life was hidden from my sight.
A little further, I spot a green shore crab scuttling away and hiding beneath a tumble of seaweed. On the tips of the seagrass, I spot juvenile snakelock anemones, their green tentacles blending in with the fresh green of the meadow. But their purple tips give them away as they sway from side to side in the movement of the sea.
And I knew that everywhere around me, magnificent creatures are hiding in the thicket of the seagrass, whether I could see them or not.
Snorkelling in his vibrant habitat in Argyll, was the beginning of my learning journey about seagrass meadows and the benefits they bring to coastal ecosystems underwater and above the surface.
I learnt that they were once much more abundant in Scottish waters. Research estimates that we have lost about 90% of Scotland’s seagrass meadows, but in places where they are given a chance they recover, they can inspire new hope in the face of the climate crisis.
Back in August, this journey took me to the village of Ardfern, some 20 miles north of where I first encountered seagrass meadows.
Here, on the shores of Loch Craignish, a local community-led marine restoration project, called Seawilding, is working to bring seagrass meadows and native oyster beds back to the rugged Argyll coastline.
I’m here to attend the Wild Seas Weekend, a two-day event that showcases some of the work being done in this region by Seawilding and other nature conservation charities and organisations. The village hall is bustling and across the two days, I meet many people who are passionate about the sea and the coast. I speak with students who research the effects of marine sound pollution and let a volunteer show me bits of seagrass under a microscope. I look at the rubber model of a flapper skate that covers an entire table, and drop my jaw as I find out it’s actually life-size. I speak to folks who restore coastal oakwoods and watch as a handful of oysters clean the muddy seawater inside a tank over the course of the day.
I join guided snorkel and paddleboarding sessions to see the seagrass meadows up close, And follow Seawilding founder, Danny Renton, and several volunteers to the shoreline at low tide, to hear about survey strategies and their native oyster release programme.
At the end of the first day of the festival, I sit down with Philip Price, who is the Communications Manager for Seawilding. I ask him how Seawilding grew out of the local community and how their work in turn impacts the people who live and work in this area.
___________________________________________________________________
[Interview with Philip Price]
Philip: So that's a very good question. So when we say it's a community led charity, it's because it's been built from the community and it employs the community. We're all, we all live here and we've all started working for Seawilding, but how that came about.
So, um, about eight years ago, we started an organization called CROMACH. Which is the Craignish Restoration of Marine and Coastal Habitat, which I'm always quite impressed I can remember it. Um, and basically what that did is it gave the community a voice on how we manage our inshore waters. Because prior to that, prior to a lot of, a lot of like minded people doing this, is that the only people that were giving voice to the local community in terms of how we manage our inshore waters were the commercial operations, so your fish farmers, your, your, um, fishermen, your creelers. Now, they should have a voice, but they certainly shouldn't be the only voice. And for a long time, they were the only voice influencing political decisions. Uh, and that's led to a really badly designed management system for our inshore waters. And that has resulted to catastrophic declines in virtually all our commercial fish species.
So we came up with CROMACH as an antidote to that. To say, listen, we live by the sea, we work in the sea, we're not a commercial operation in terms of exploiting the sea, but we should still have a say in how our sea, because I'm swimming in the sea every day, I take my kids in the sea every day, I would like to have a say in how my home is run.
Um, the problem with that is, We ended up doing, and it's very important work, but we ended up doing lots of consultations. Um, lots of talking to people, lots of saying no, we don't think that's a good idea. We don't want another fish farm. We don't want dredgers to come into our loch. And that's fine, and it's important, and it gets the conversation going, and then somebody has to take a balanced decision, you know, balancing up the economic interest, the jobs, and the impact on the environment.
The problem with you as a volunteer doing that is, it's very hard to see the light at the end of that tunnel. And there is light at the end of that tunnel, I'm sure of it, but we needed something more positive than that. We needed to kind of have something that we could really get our teeth into and go, we are making a difference.
Um, and that's why we wanted to start Seawilding. So, one of our community decided to, uh, trial an oyster, uh, restoration project. Got a bit of funding, that was Danny, our CEO. Uh, when that was successful, he then came up with the branding Seawilding. Um, we separated from CROMACH, because CROMACH was just a, a group.
Uh, and we, and he created a, a SCIO, a charity, which meant we'd get proper funding, employ people. We were all doing voluntary work for Seawilding when it started out and then gradually we got some part time work And we gave up our previous businesses and jobs and become full time now.
Kathi: That's fantastic and I think with what you're saying about being part of that decision making process and even though you don't have an Immediate or direct commercial interest in it.
You should still be part of that conversation because it's your home. Coastal communities are obviously Especially in Scotland, but also around the world, affected by climate change in a different way than, um, people who live in the cities that are maybe further away from the sea or higher up, um, in the mountains as well.
Because of course we've, you notice the sea level, because of course you notice the sea level rising way before we will, um, a bit further away. And I think... That's probably one of the reasons why it's also so important for coastal communities to be actively engaged in that. Is there anything you would add? Like, why is it so important for coastal communities to be involved in that conversation?
Philip: Well, what you said, I couldn't say any better, so I completely agree with that. But also, we have to pick up the pieces. You know, we're the one on the beach picking up all the rubbish from the fish farm and the, and the gloves that are thrown over the side from fishing vessels.
Um, and I'm not saying we shouldn't have fishing. I'm not saying that at all. But, you know, often communities are left to, to, to mop up. Um, you know, if, if there's a toxic algae bloom in the loch, it's our pets that are going to suffer. Our dogs that go in the water. It's our kids that are splashing around in it.
If there's, um, if, if, if, if, I run a tourism business, or I have a self catering accommodation, or I run a hotel, and there's nothing for anyone to see when they come up and visit, because all the dolphins have disappeared because they're using, uh, acoustic deterrents. Then, or there's no fish for them to eat.
That has direct impacts on our, on our lives. Um, so we have to have a say, otherwise coastal communities will break down, because the fishermen and, and the commercial interests of the sea are in decline because they've overfished it. We don't have the fish stocks we used to because they didn't manage it correctly.
So it has to be done in a different way and the only way you're going to get done in a different way is not by relying on the same voices to tell you how to do it. So you need new voices and that's why I think it's absolutely vital communities have a voice in how their home is being looked after.
Kathi: That's a great way to put it and probably something that could be said about many things in the world in just the right way. Thinking about renewable energy conversations and things like that as well.
Philip: Yes, most definitely.
Kathi: Um, Why seagrass?
What makes seagrass so important and what role does it play within Scotland?
Philip: So seagrass is one of these incredible, sort of, keystone species they call it. Basically, it just means it's really important for a whole load of other animals to survive and thrive. And why is that? Well there's a couple of things going on there.
So if you can imagine the seabed as this sandy bottom. It's very flat and it doesn't have very much structure. So... To enable animals to get shelter, or to get food, or for things to grow on things, Um, you need, you need structure. Particularly in the sea actually, that's why you always get loads of life around.
Um, uh, pontoons or boats, whatever. Um, so by planting seagrass, you create this incredible 3D structure in an otherwise sandy based seabed. But the other thing seagrass does is it draws carbon in from the atmosphere and, and sequests it into the sediment. So you've got the bonus of more habitat for loads of different species, including...
Lots of juvenile commercial fish species and you have this kind of carbon sucking ability as well.
Kathi: And that's because it photosynthesizes, right? Like a tree up on land, that's what the seagrass does under water.
Philip: Yeah, yeah. So unfortunately, um, I'm not, I'm not a scientist. I don't know the exact ins and outs of it, but the general gist as I understand it, is it, it, it's slightly different to a tree.
So a tree pulls carbon out of the atmosphere and creates wood essentially, or grows leaves. Um... There's something goes on with the seagrass that it does that too, but it also feeds the carbon into the sediment through its rhizome structure, which is its root structure and That means the carbon is locked away.
So even if the plant dies the carbon doesn't get released So so long as you don't go and dredge the seabed then that carbon stays locked away forever Well for for as good as ever in terms of a human lifetime and so it's really exciting from that perspective
Kathi: and seagrass in Scotland then specifically Is there a lot of it around?
Um, I assume that a lot of it has been lost as well, otherwise you wouldn't be doing the work that you're doing.
Philip: Yeah, so, so we think, and the science has kind of, um, has led us to this, this thinking, that we think that around the coast of the UK, roughly 95% of the seagrass has been lost. Some people think it's between 60 and 95%, but certainly when we've surveyed the seabed here to identify how much seagrass we could have, In terms of suitable sediment and depth.
And we've compared it to what seagrass we do have. We find we're about 5% of what we could have. And that is why we're really passionate about trying to improve that 5% to a lot more.
Kathi: Yeah, and so you've mentioned dredging as one of the things that might damage seagrass meadows. Is there anything else that you think has happened?
And why we now have so much less sea meadows, seagrass meadows?
Philip: Yeah, so, so, um, so dredging, they used to specifically There's lots of different types of dredge, and you can dredge to clear rivers, dredge for scallops. The, the problem with dredging for scallops, it doesn't often clear the seagrass out, but it creates these plumes of sediment that smothers seagrass and makes it vulnerable to disease.
So that's one problem, but then in some places they specifically dredge the seagrass to clean the beaches and make it nicer for people to go in the water. So that, those are the pressures that have resulted in seagrass disappearing. The other thing is, uh, anchorages, yacht centres, like, like we're sitting in front of here.
Um, pollution events, these all weaken the seagrass and then they become vulnerable to disease which can wipe out big, large chunks of seagrass, uh, bed. So, it's probably a massive variety of different things.
Kathi: And now let's move on to the other species you work with, the native oysters. Again, can you explain what they are and why they're so important?
Philip: So it's a very similar story there. So, so the native oyster is a mollusc, essentially a snail with a, with a slightly different shell. Um, and it's very easy to dismiss that as a, as a snail, but actually And the same with people that study snails. When you get into these animals, they're so fascinating. The fact that this little blobby thing can create a shell that's totally bomb proof is pretty incredible.
But they do the same thing as seagrass. They create structure in an environment that would be lacking structure otherwise. So... Oysters like to grow on oysters. So if you've got a really healthy reef, what happens is the baby oysters grow on the adult oysters. They become adults. So you've then got two levels.
And then the next, like, generation growing that, you've got three levels. So you end up having multiple levels of oysters, which allows lots of nooks and crannies and surface area for all sorts of animals to, to live and exist in. So from that perspective, oysters are... incredible. Um, but then they do this other thing that the seagrass doesn't do is and they filter the water, they clean the water, they takes, they take nutrients out of the water and allow the water to be clearer.
And actually we find that has a nice benefit for the seagrass because it lets more light in and hopefully will benefit our seagrass in the future too.
Kathi: So it's really about restoring an ecosystem not just individual species.
Philip: Yeah, so when you're a person from Homo sapien We're very good at trying to concentrate on one thing at a time and unfortunately ecosystems just don't work like that.
Um, and we're only learning that now. So instead of conserving a beetle or conserving a tiger, you've got to think ecosystem level now. And that's why we're restoring the seagrass and the oysters because we believe that's the bedrock of an ecosystem. Rather than saying, right, we want to restore herring or juvenile cod.
It's like, well, We're hoping they'll do that themselves once we've built the foundation for where they can have their young and rear their young.
Kathi: Absolutely. Oh, that makes so much sense. And, um, we've seen today in the village hall an example of how efficient oysters are at cleaning water. You had a tank set up with...
A handful of oysters chucked in basically and some seagrass as well and when I arrived in the morning you could barely see anything in it because the water was so mucky and silty I guess and now as we left it was completely clear and you could just see every detail and that's all the oysters, right?
Philip: Yes, exactly what they're doing. And that, so you think, so you think, this is really interesting. So that's actually the first time I've seen that demonstration done, even though I've been working with Seawilding now for a couple of years. And, uh, I've read about it and I knew they did that, but to actually see it is mind blowing.
And then you, then you think about the world that we live in now compared to the world we could live in. The world we live in now, we have maybe, I don't know, Half a million oysters around the whole country, maybe? I don't know. In little pockets of population. Compare that to two or three hundred years ago.
We would have had billions of oysters. Literally covering our shorelines. Think about how much of that tank has been cleaned in just a couple of hours. They're doing that to our entire ocean. So the clarity of the water back then must have been phenomenal. And I think that's what drives us forward.
Is like, imagining this pristine, almost utopian sea that we can have again if we just change a few things and fix a few things.
Kathi: That's amazing and it's, it's so inspiring to think. It's, it is about that big picture thinking and that future vision but it is within reach.
Philip: Oh yeah.
Kathi: It's not just something that happens in 300 years.
Philip: Yeah and I think that's, that's That's one of the nice things about the sea particularly so on land your time scales for regeneration can be quite long but we're finding in the sea that you can get a big difference I think a little bit quicker so our seagrass meadows we think five to ten years we can see some really big improvements.
Even in a year, we've seen a doubling in our, in our biodiversity, in our, in our restored seagrass compared to the mud. Um, and the same with, same with the oysters. We're seeing sort of 40 to 50% increase in biodiversity where we've got oysters and yeah, these are tiny little areas at the moment, but uh, but the benefits happen very quickly in the sea 'cause it's an interconnected habitat.
So.
Kathi: Yeah.
Philip: It's properly exciting.
Kathi: And it's almost like running a little experiment in one small area, and then being able to think about, okay, how do you then scale that and make it.
Philip: So that's exactly what, where Seawilding are at the moment. So, we all want to go landscape scale, but at the moment, We can't put our finger on the right methodology for doing that because some, because we'll have these questions in our mind.
Well, is it better to put an oyster down at 10 grams or 20 grams or 30 grams? Is it better to plant seagrass by using rhizome transplanting, which is the roots, or is it better to do seeds and baggers? We just don't know the answers to that yet. So at the moment we're conducting huge experiments, um, which is also restoring habitat at the same time, but we're just trying to monitor which is the most successful of that habitat restoration. And then we can push the button and go, right, now we can go for some really big funds to make this happen on a landscape scale.
Kathi: Incredible. And so do you want to walk me in basic, uh, simple to understand ways through the process of restoring a seagrass meadow? What's required and what steps do you have to take for that?
Philip: So, the start off point is surveying. So you, you, you survey an area to see if you've got any existing seagrass and to see if the seabed is suitable for seagrass restoration. That's your first two steps.Then you're going to get permission from NatureScot because you might be interacting with an existing seagrass bed which is protected, and you've got to come up with a fairly robust plan on how you're going to do that restoration.
Then it gets interesting. What is the best way of doing that restoration? We don't actually know yet, but we're trialling various methods. One method is to go out at exactly this time of year, and we're sort of mid August now, and collect seed from this plant before it's fallen off the plant. So you've got to get that timing pretty good.
You then put those seeds into a tank, allow them to fall from the plant that you've harvested in the tank, and then you sweep them seeds up. You store them seeds till it's time to plant them, which we think is probably either October or the spring. We're not sure, we're experimenting with both. And then you either plant the seed directly into the seabed, or you put it in little bags that protects the seed from predation or from being washed away, and then put the bags on the seabed and they rot away, allowing the germinating plant to come through.
Um, or, so that's using seed. The other way of doing it is going into the seagrass. You can do this at any time of year. You can harvest individual plants under license from NatureScot, and then you plant those individual plants out on the sediment, uh, and with the hope that what happens is the rhizomes have survived that process.
They then... Because they kind of have been slightly stressed by it, they think, God, I need to grow now. This is, this is bad news. We need to grow. So it sort of sets off a super growth pattern that allows the rhizomes to interconnect and put shoots up in the gaps. So you then get an infill in the meadow and you get hopefully a proper seagrass meadow resulting from the individual plants that you put out.
Kathi: So when you're in a seagrass meadow, does that mean... That one plant actually has multiple shoots, or is it individual plants that you're seeing?
Philip: So, um, it can vary. Sometimes you've got one shoot, one rhizome, one root system that can have 10 or 15 plants coming off it. Sometimes you've got one plant and one root.
It can really vary. But what you get when you put your hand into a seagrass meadow and you're trying to dig out a root is this massive interconnected root system. It's so wonderful. And then you start thinking, hold on a minute. What's one of the biggest problems we have with, uh, the ocean, the sort of coastal communities around here, and a lot of it, not so much here, but certainly down south, is coastal erosion.
So if you put this huge network of roots into this very fine sediment, it locks it all into place, so it's going to be a massive boon for coastal erosion. So we think it's another huge advantage of restoring seagrass.
Kathi: That's so interesting, that's the second time now that I thought about an episode earlier in the season that is about bogs.
Philip: Oh right, yeah, yeah.
Kathi: Peat doing similar things in terms of locking carbon away into the soil or into the ground. And now also seagrass, um, being one of the measures against coastal erosion in the same way that, that, peat and that is, is, is a, as a measure against soil washing away. So it's, that's really fascinating.
Philip: Yeah, no, it's really interesting. And also it helps mitigate against storm surges because the root network is really strong. The plants take energy out of the waves, which means you're not blasted with the same energy in a wave that you would be otherwise. So, benefit after benefit, hopefully.
Kathi: Um, can you tell me a bit or describe some of the challenges that you face in your work? And that could be practical challenges in the water or maybe more, um, challenges in, in the face of other people being part of that conversation and, and how decisions are being made.
Philip: Yeah, it's a good, it's a really good question. The challenges sort of vary on a daily basis almost, but the main challenges we face, I think, from a practical point of view is, like we were discussing before, is figuring out the best way of doing stuff and having to work at seagrass time or oyster time.
If we trial a seagrass thing, we have to wait 18 months to see if it works. It's just what we have to do. So, and then if we trial something one year and it's super hot, and we trial something the next year and it's super cold, then that skewers our learnings quite heavily. Um, so we're, we're trying to create that fine balance of doing and learning at the same time.
Because we can't wait till the science is perfect, um, but we need to rely on the science to make sure we get the best methodology, so we have to both do and learn, and that's the approach we're taking, but, but, the, the main challenge is that, like I said, that time scale that you have to work at. In terms of external influences, um, I think still, it's changing now, but I think at a regulatory level, The concept of rewilding and rebuilding habitats rather than conserving habitats still hasn't fully sunk in to the point of where they're like, yeah, I get this, let's do this.
We still have to play the convincing game on oyster restoration rather than just conserving a wee pocket of oysters there. And we still have to play a little bit of a game on the, well, we've got seagrass, why do we need to put any more in? Well, yeah, because there's not very much. And we think we need to help it.
Um, that is changing. And within a lot of the kind of regulatory organisations, um, there's some really good people doing good work, uh, who are super supportive of what we do particularly. Um, but, but that has been a little bit of a challenge in the past. And then, going forward, at the moment, most of our work doesn't come in conflict with any commercial interest going on in the loch.
However, at some point in the future that may happen. So we're going to have to maybe persuade, or... Or come up with compromises with people who have commercial interests to try and change either what we do or what they do, so we can both flourish in the loch. How that happens, we won't know yet, but that will happen at some point.
Kathi: The future will tell, I guess. Um, how do you... Sorry, I'm gonna do that again.
You already mentioned, you know, that there's a few different local groups and obviously Seawilding has grown out of another local group as well. How do you engage with different organisations and groups, community led or otherwise? Uh, in the local area and, um, I'm thinking for example, the, the Friends of the Sound of Jura,
Philip: Yeah.
Kathi: Or the Argyll Hope Spot, who are two organisations I personally have made experiences with. So how does that kind of network function?
Philip: So, so the, so the Argyll Hope Spot's interesting because that's the kind of label that we all live under. So we are, we are Argyll Hope Spot, Friends of the Sound of Jura are Argyll Hope Spot. It, it governs our whole area and it's a label we all fully believe in and get behind because... We're living in an environment that isn't good as it could be, but it has hope that it could be a lot better. So that's kind of the basis of the Hope Spot. So in terms of communicating with other organizations like ourselves, then the, uh, The easiest way to do it is through this wonderful thing that's been set up, that help us set up actually, which is the Coastal Community Network and they are run to support and connect individual community groups around the country so we have a bigger voice and we have Uh, shared learnings.
We have, um, you know, all the way down to practical phone calls where you can phone somebody from a different group and go, Well, you've done seagrass. How did you do that? Or, um, how do you set up a website? Where did you get that information? Or we've got a fish farm application. How do we, how do we, um, get through that and, and find out if it's a good or bad one or whatever?
So the Coastal Community Network, the CCN, has been vital for that.
Kathi: Mm. And beyond kind of the local area or beyond the maybe the grassroots level as well, how do you engage with, say, local councils or businesses with commercial interests? Um, or even, you know, government bodies, uh, I'm thinking of NatureScot and things like that - how does that function?
Philip: So being part of CCN allows us access to these government bodies. So that's, that's our route into that. We're also part of the Scottish Rewarding Alliance. Um, so that's another way into lobbying politicians. We've also developed some personal relationships with particularly the green MSPs like Ariane Burgess who are super excited by what's happening here and want to help us and support us as best they can, which is very lovely.
In terms of the commercial conversations, one of the routes we're going down at the moment as a community So this is not Seawilding, but this is more a CROMACH thing, is to, um, try and create a demonstration and research marine protected area in Loch Craignish. And that gives us a mechanism because we have to engage all the stakeholders, all the commercial interests in the loch, to get that through.
Um, and we have to go to them and say, this is our plan to improve the health of the loch, are you on board? Um, and if they say yes, then we have to come up with some projects that we can work on together that will hopefully improve the health of the loch. So that's, that's probably the main mechanism for the local commercial and business interests that we're using to kind of build those relationships to try and improve the loch. A a, a very quick example is working with the Ardfern Yacht Center to help communicate where the seagrass beds are to, um, yacht, yacht, yacht people sailing in their yachts, so they don't anchoring the sea grass.
Kathi: Mm-hmm.
Philip: So it's a very simple example of working with the, a local business.
Kathi: That's brilliant. And I, I like how you explain or, or describe, you know, on the one hand, it is about local community getting involved and not just having these decisions made top down. But on the other hand, you kind of still have to play by the rules, um, and play the game a little bit and then use the mechanisms that exist to your benefit and in new and different ways. And yeah, that's that's really inspiring. Um, can you talk a bit more about the networking aspect that you do with other community groups or other charities as well, and maybe some of the training you deliver or, um, yeah.
Philip: So, one of the ways we'd like to see Seawilding expand as a, as a, um, either as a, as a charity, but, but mainly to see our, what the work we're doing, see oysters, seagrass, habitat restoration, expanding, is to motivate, to train, to help other communities to do this themselves.
And as part of that, we run training weekends, um, every year, inviting other communities here so they can learn firsthand how we're doing what we're doing, the mistakes we've made, uh, the successes we've had, and then hopefully they can build similar projects in their own communities. Um, CCN are very good at facilitating a lot of this as well.
So they do monthly calls and restoration that we can all attend and share best practice again, share mistakes. They run a big event every two years where we all go to, called Gartmore. Um, that allows us to network there to, to have presentations, either give presentations or receive presentations about particular successes or failures or whatever.
So there is- that networking is, is working very, very well. The main problem we have as a, as a community force is capacity. So, um, the mistake we've probably made a little bit at the beginning is believing that the community can just do this voluntarily. You can't. The community can do it, and communities all around Scotland can do it, but they have to be supported with providing jobs to do that.
Um, otherwise... You get burned out very, very quickly. And we found that with Seawilding. You know, I'm about the most passionate person in the world about rewilding. And I was holding down a job, got a family of three kids, trying to volunteer for Seawilding. It, it was, it got to the point where it wasn't fun.
And I still kept doing it because it's important, but you need to get paid people in these roles that allow them to really drive this stuff forward.
Kathi: Absolutely. And I think that's the same in so many different sectors as well. And, you know, I've personally gone through that process myself of constantly having the conversation about, Oh, but you're passionate about this. Don't you enjoy doing it? But like you say, at some point, it just gets too much in order to give it your all. You need to be able to fully focus on that and still be able not to worry about your livelihood.
Philip: Definitely. And it's okay to enjoy something you get paid for. I think we've got this weird attitude in Britain where we need to work really hard and be really miserable working. It's like, well, surely if you're lucky enough, and I understand my privilege. I have huge privilege. Um, but. If you're lucky enough to have a job that's fun, that's a good thing.
Kathi: Exactly.
Philip: It's not a bad thing.
Kathi: Yeah. And then being able to harness your passion and your expertise and your, you know, innovation as well into something that will change the world is amazing. And being paid for it.
Philip: Yeah, we're very lucky.
Kathi: How fantastic.
Philip: Very lucky. I have to say, we are very lucky.
Kathi: Um, There are obviously a lot of restoration projects, not just seagrass, but including seagrass as well in other places in Scotland, and it seems like they're all kind of doing it slightly in different ways.
There's some that are led by national agencies, some like yourselves, led by grassroots community groups. Can you maybe comment on the advantages and disadvantages of your process or your, your approach and where you think you might be able to learn something from how it's done elsewhere.
Philip: Yeah, so, I think the, the, the advantages of, of being this kind of community startup, if you like, is that, for instance, very, it can be a very simple thing. If I want to go down... Down to the water there, and I have to walk through that field. I know I speak to Sandy Ritchie. That's who owns that field. Like, I don't have to ask anybody.
I don't have to get their permission. I can just give them a call or Whatsapp them and go, can I go down your field and, um, put a, you know, a wee cage out of oysters and do a trial there. And they'll be like, yeah, no worries. Um, Whereas if you're an agency coming in, you have to get permission, you have to figure out who owns that field, you have to ask around and they'll be like, Oh, who are you coming in and doing this?
You haven't built up that relationship with everybody in the community that - you haven't built up that trust. Um, so that's a huge advantage. And then, you know, we've got a really huge mixed skillset. We're not employed to do a certain thing. We've come to this because we want to make something happen. So if we're, um, if we're having to fix up the boat shed, we don't have to get a builder in and we've got the skills within the team to do that.
Our marine scientist happens to be a tree surgeon, so he can top some of the trees, you know. So, you know West Coast community You tend to find multi skilled people and which means you can just get stuff done quicker. Then we don't have a massive decision tree to go up and down. So if we want to change a poster, I do a lot of the communication stuff and, and the website stuff and I'll just check with one person.
Do you think this is alright? Yeah, it's alright. Job done.
Um, whereas if we're a part of a big organisation, then if I want to change the website, I have to go to the web designer that's been employed by the big organisation, and then I have to check with the manager of both the web design and of my manager, and then I have to get permission from all of those to change a couple of words.
So that's like two weeks work to do something I can maybe do in five minutes. (Kathi: Yeah.) So we're really efficient, um, with money. And we're really quick to do stuff.
The disadvantage, I would say, of our approach is that we have to create all our own resources. So that obviously takes a bit of time. Uh, and getting access to big funds to really push this forward.
You need a track record to do that. You're not gonna be given multi-million pound projects. If you're just a wee start up with a few shnees in Ardfern that are looking to get a project up and running, chucked a few oysters in and thought, Whoa, what's this? So we've had to build up that kind of trust and track record with the wider funding community, which we're starting to do now. But if you're WWF, let's say, you have that track record, you know, you're a trusted, uh, funded organization. So if you're saying, well, give us a million pounds and we'll deliver this project, they'll probably go, well, you've done it before. Yeah, let's, let's see you do it.
So, you know, there are advantages and disadvantages.
Kathi: Absolutely. There's a question kind of in the back of my head that I would love to ask. And I'm hoping. Well, it actually matches up with another question I also want to ask. Yeah, yeah, thank you. That was shit anyways. Wait for that to leave.
What even is that? It's like a little quad bike or something. It goes straight up the hill. Or a lawnmower.
Um, there's a question on the back of my mind, and I kind of have two ways of asking you. One is, is there anything... And if yes, and I hope your answer is yes, what gives you hope?
Philip: Uh, yes, actually, lots gives me hope. So bigger picture stuff, we have this climate crisis, and we have this biodiversity crisis.
Uh, and on one hand you could think, oh no, you know, we're maybe looking at human extinction if we don't sort this out. But the other hand is if we do sort this out, what is it going to look like? It's going to look incredible. We're going to have very low cost energy. We're going to have beautiful air quality. We're going to have abundant wildlife. We're going to have farming systems that work with nature for people and for wildlife. This is a utopian vision, and it's not like we could have it. We have to have it to survive. And actually... For some reason that gives me huge amounts of hope because we're either not going to succeed and go extinct or we're going to succeed and have this incredible world that we're going to have forged for our generation possibly, definitely for the future generations. So in terms of are we going to be a good ancestor for them?
Then we have to be and if we achieve that then we'll be a brilliant ancestor for future generations. So it's gonna be super exciting. So bigger picture stuff that gives me real hope.
On the local level, I've got real hope too, because we did a survey recently, and it turned out the vast majority of the local population care about their loch, and wanted to see it better, wanted to see it healthier, and that's enabled us to go down this D and R MPA that we were talking about earlier, the [demonstration and] research marine protected area.
So that's, that's a game changer. People didn't have that care - years ago. You know, they're either too hard at work just surviving, or it just wasn't in their sphere of knowledge or thinking or whatever it was. A nd then you go and swim in seagrass and you're like, imagine there being more of this stuff. It's so awesome. And then you watch those oysters clean that tank out and you're like -
the sea could be like this, you know what I mean? So, if we can achieve even half of what we need to, the world's going to be a very wonderful place. So, yeah, definitely full of hope.
Kathi: That's amazing, and you've almost answered my second way of asking this question, and that would be if you could paint me a picture of what the world would look like, the way you envision it, um, being able to do all these things, and I think that was, that was pretty much what you did there, so.
Philip: So I'll give you a wee, another wee analogy you might find quite useful. There's a, there's a... Uh, we're doing these interviews with people about what the loch used to be like. And the amount of life in here is just, used to be phenomenal. And there's a wildlife boat trip that would go out of Craobh Haven, which is just over the other side of the peninsula.
And he would go out of here, and he had to go at five knots, because there were so many seabirds around his boat, he would have killed them if he didn't go that slowly. Just hundreds, thousands, as far as the eye could see. They don't exist now, they've gone. There's no food for them. Um. So yeah, what does it look like in the future?
Well, I go out on my boat, I can't go five knots because I'm going to crush these millions of seabirds. And then, there's pods of dolphins, there's huge populations of orcas, there's great whales back on our shoreline, and there's flapper skate the size of three meter wingspans flying around the loch.
That's what the future looks like.
Kathi: Amazing. So how can people get involved?
Philip: Good question. We have various volunteer days throughout the year which are all on our website, so you can sign up to any of that. For people that live locally, we have Other things that are a bit more tide dependent or a bit more, um, need a bit more training.
So like Monitoring our oysters you can get involved with that. You can always give us all your hard earned cash. That's always good. So you can do a bit of that. And actually just you know a lot of what's nice about what we do and what's really important is that if the message is shared. A) it gives us validation which helps us fundraise from big funders, like government funding, um, but also it just gets that message out there that the sea is an incredible place and we need to really love it.
It needs our love. It really needs it now. So , if that's all you can do is just look at what we do and share it and, and, and come and learn a little bit about it and, and talk to your friends about, about the pressures and the, and the wonderfulness of it and, and what needs to change in it, then that's a good thing to do.
Kathi: Brilliant. We'll put all the links in the show notes to the website, where to donate, where to find out about upcoming events and social media as well. Um, I do encourage people to follow because, yeah, like I said, the visual images and videos you share with Seawilding, it's, yeah, it makes it really approachable and, and relatable, even though I live quite a good distance from the sea, so it's quite nice to see that as a reminder and, and be immersed in it that way. Is there anything else you would like to give listeners on the way, whether it is about the future, or Seawilding, the work you do, or anything else?
Philip: Um, I think it's, yeah, I think it's just to hold on to that hope. Somebody today actually mentioned to me that the best reason for hope is it gives us the drive to take action.
And we need to take action, but if we do take action, it's going to be really good. So, let's just... Yeah, use that.
Kathi: Brilliant. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Philip: No problem, thank you.
Kathi: Amazing.
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In just two days I learnt so much about rewilding out seas. Why it’s important, how it might be done, and why it is crucial that local communities are at the forefront of this movement.
We will be sharing lots of resources to learn more about seagrass in the show notes of this episode. First and foremost, you’ll find the links to connect with Seawilding, how to join them as a volunteer and other ways to support their work.
You’ll also find links to other community-led initiatives on the coast of Argyll, a few articles and videos you might find interesting, and other podcast episodes about seagrass.
One of them is the latest episode on my own podcast Wild for Scotland. It’s called ‘A Long Time Coming’ and takes you on an immersive journey on Loch Craignish. I’m taking you out on the paddleboard to learn about native oysters, we’ll hear more from Philip about the creatures that live in the seagrass, and we’ll go snorkelling to encounter some of them. You can find Wild for Scotland wherever you listen to this podcast right now.
Seagrass meadows are not just something pretty to look at if you’re fortunate enough to snorkel or paddle past one. They can do so much for our climate resilience and can help us take hopeful, solutions-led approaches to dealing with the biodiversity crisis and coastal erosion. In times where it is easy to feel disconnected from the people and powers that seem to be setting the agenda at the top, projects like Seawilding bring the conversation back to the ground level, and invite us to participate.
And I hope that listening to this episode has inspired you to do just that.
Monday Oct 30, 2023
Monday Oct 30, 2023
One of our Story Weavers, Lesley Anne Rose, interviews community artist, Andrew Crummy. Andrew is one of the team of behind the vision for the The 360 Center, an inspiring community led project to transform the site of the former Cockenzie Power Station in East Lothian.
Credits:
Interview and recording: Lesley Anne Rose
Edit: Kaska Hempel
Resources:
SCCAN Member of the Month blog about 360 Centre: https://sccan.scot/blog/member-of-the-month-the-360-centre/
The 360 Centre http://www.the360centre.com/
The Great Tapestry of Scotland https://www.greattapestryofscotland.com/
Andrew Crummy https://www.andrewcrummy.com/
John Muir Way https://johnmuirway.org/
Siccar Point https://www.geowalks.co.uk/siccar-point/
Sustaining Dunbar https://sustainingdunbar.org/
Sustaining Musselburgh https://www.facebook.com/sustainingmusselburgh/
Monday Oct 16, 2023
Monday Oct 16, 2023
This is a cross over episode from the Disrupting the Doughnut of Doom podcast by our friends at EMEN (Ethnic Minority Environmental Network). Podcast host, Andrew Williams, interviews Thalia Groucott from Glasgow Food Policy Partnership. They discuss how what we eat, and how we grow it, affects the climate, the countryside and the communities we live in.
Resources
Listening matters – a collection of climate-engaged podcasts from Scotland: https://sccan.scot/blog/on-the-way-to-1000-better-stories-ten-scottish-climate-podcasts/
Disrupting the Doughnut of Doom podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0jXi3tU4hVmSjehCGA72oj?si=ad08bff3b31446b3
The Good Food for Glasgow podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/49vlwtpxg2e0xZtXguoUpn
Inclusion, Race, The Climate and Food episode of Good Food for Glasgow podcast featuring Andrew from EMEN: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3f8cGVcFO4lIhEimKqt46M?si=47ba961a553e42ac
Ethnic Minority Environmental Network: http://theemennetwork.com
Glasgow Food Policy Partnership: https://glasgowfood.net/